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	<title>Comments on: The Ships of EVE Online</title>
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	<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/</link>
	<description>The fascinating world of EVE Online, explored and explained.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:57:06 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: redstone g1</title>
		<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/comment-page-1/#comment-206</link>
		<dc:creator>redstone g1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jumponcontact.com/?p=339#comment-206</guid>
		<description>Is it the problem of my browser or is your blog down at the moment? I am unable to see any of the images on your blog. will have to try and see how it goes after sometime. By the way I use mozilla firefox browser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it the problem of my browser or is your blog down at the moment? I am unable to see any of the images on your blog. will have to try and see how it goes after sometime. By the way I use mozilla firefox browser.</p>
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		<title>By: Justified Tears: The Great Deep Safe Nerf of 2010 &#8211; Negative Reinforcement</title>
		<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/comment-page-1/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Justified Tears: The Great Deep Safe Nerf of 2010 &#8211; Negative Reinforcement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 02:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jumponcontact.com/?p=339#comment-191</guid>
		<description>[...] I &#8220;didn&#8217;t get the memo&#8221;. Seriously, fixing a exploit is one thing, destroying a 120 Billion ISK &#8211; $7600 USD (converted) 3400 Hour time sink &#8211; is a whole hell of a different [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I &#8220;didn&#8217;t get the memo&#8221;. Seriously, fixing a exploit is one thing, destroying a 120 Billion ISK &#8211; $7600 USD (converted) 3400 Hour time sink &#8211; is a whole hell of a different [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jump On Contact &#124; Internet Spaceships Bring The Pain Aid</title>
		<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Jump On Contact &#124; Internet Spaceships Bring The Pain Aid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jumponcontact.com/?p=339#comment-107</guid>
		<description>[...] Comparing the value of player donations to Haiti relief efforts to the cost of a titan. (Based on this visualization of relative ship prices.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Comparing the value of player donations to Haiti relief efforts to the cost of a titan. (Based on this visualization of relative ship prices.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: VizThink Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; VizLinks &#124; Visual Thinking Bookmarks for February 26th</title>
		<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/comment-page-1/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>VizThink Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; VizLinks &#124; Visual Thinking Bookmarks for February 26th</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jumponcontact.com/?p=339#comment-106</guid>
		<description>[...] The Ships of EVE Online &amp; Their costs: Visualized &#8211;     var addthis_pub = &#039;vizthink&#039;; var addthis_language = &#039;en&#039;;var addthis_options = &#039;twitter, email, favorites, digg, delicious, myspace, google, facebook, reddit, live, more&#039;;    ---Liked this post? You may find these of interest or relevance:VizLinks &#124; Visual Thinking Bookmarks for February 10thVizLinks &#124; Visual Thinking Bookmarks for February 26thVizLinks &#124; Visual Thinking Bookmarks for February 2ndVizLinks &#124; Visual Thinking Bookmarks for November 19thVizLinks &#124; Visual Thinking Bookmarks for January 26th          blog comments powered by Disqus  var disqus_url = &#039;http://vizthink.com/joom/blog/?p=710 &#039;; var disqus_container_id = &#039;disqus_thread&#039;; var facebookXdReceiverPath = &#039;http://vizthink.com/joom/blog/wp-content/plugins/disqus-comment-system/xd_receiver.htm&#039;;   var DsqLocal = { &#039;trackbacks&#039;: [ ], &#039;trackback_url&#039;: &#039;http://vizthink.com/joom/blog/wp-trackback.php?p=710&#039; }; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Ships of EVE Online &amp; Their costs: Visualized &#8211;     var addthis_pub = &#39;vizthink&#39;; var addthis_language = &#39;en&#39;;var addthis_options = &#39;twitter, email, favorites, digg, delicious, myspace, google, facebook, reddit, live, more&#39;;    &#8212;Liked this post? You may find these of interest or relevance:VizLinks | Visual Thinking Bookmarks for February 10thVizLinks | Visual Thinking Bookmarks for February 26thVizLinks | Visual Thinking Bookmarks for February 2ndVizLinks | Visual Thinking Bookmarks for November 19thVizLinks | Visual Thinking Bookmarks for January 26th          blog comments powered by Disqus  var disqus_url = &#39;http://vizthink.com/joom/blog/?p=710 &#39;; var disqus_container_id = &#39;disqus_thread&#39;; var facebookXdReceiverPath = &#39;http://vizthink.com/joom/blog/wp-content/plugins/disqus-comment-system/xd_receiver.htm&#39;;   var DsqLocal = { &#39;trackbacks&#39;: [ ], &#39;trackback_url&#39;: &#39;http://vizthink.com/joom/blog/wp-trackback.php?p=710&#39; }; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kremlin</title>
		<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/comment-page-1/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>kremlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 03:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jumponcontact.com/?p=339#comment-89</guid>
		<description>A bit of background: data representation is something that&#039;s always really excited me and I&#039;m starting a project to do some statistical infographics for the CHE, a body that advises higher education in South Africa. Developing an effective workflow is pretty high on my list of priorities.

Bear in mind that exporting Processing output would leave you with a flat file, instead of manipulable objects. As you say, this sort of heavy-entropy-loss operation might well lead to &quot;argh, I have to start again&quot; situations downstream from that point. I think a scripting engine in a graphics package is definitely the way to go.

I really feel like this calls for an interface layer to be written. You curate your data source, and then you open your addon/bunch of scripts (possibly in Illustrator or Inkscape, they both have great scripting environments by the looks of things but I&#039;m not sure how far they can go in terms of creating GUIs and complex realtime logic) and point it at that source. You are then able to attach data in meaningful ways to, shall we say, &quot;draw tools&quot;, which you can then attach behaviours to (everything from what to draw to how to label it, colours mapped to integer values, etc). Something like aesthetically pleasing, non-interfering labels that intelligently place themselves is actually not too tricky to achieve programmatically, and once written could be added to a behaviour toolbox. You&#039;d eventually build up enough tools to bring whatever you imagine to life.

I want to emphasize that I feel that the human element is very important, and that layout design should always be down to a... designer - just that extensive programmatic support would take so much of the tedium out of creating insightful infographics.

That sort of tool is out of scope for both of us, I&#039;m guessing, &#039;though it&#039;d make a great project for someone at the MIT media lab with time to kill :). 

I also have some ideas about just straight-up using processing, or at least javascript, to make &quot;brochures&quot;, if you will; essentially pictures like these  that use live data feeds. There are some examples of this around (in fact, it&#039;s not an original idea at all; remember the flash digg-data-wheel-thing?) and I think there is very exciting potential here for all sorts of data analysis.

I&#039;m going to do some intense investigation and dabbling in graphics-package-script and web tool draw functions over the next few weeks. I&#039;ll let you know how I progress, if you&#039;re interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit of background: data representation is something that&#8217;s always really excited me and I&#8217;m starting a project to do some statistical infographics for the CHE, a body that advises higher education in South Africa. Developing an effective workflow is pretty high on my list of priorities.</p>
<p>Bear in mind that exporting Processing output would leave you with a flat file, instead of manipulable objects. As you say, this sort of heavy-entropy-loss operation might well lead to &#8220;argh, I have to start again&#8221; situations downstream from that point. I think a scripting engine in a graphics package is definitely the way to go.</p>
<p>I really feel like this calls for an interface layer to be written. You curate your data source, and then you open your addon/bunch of scripts (possibly in Illustrator or Inkscape, they both have great scripting environments by the looks of things but I&#8217;m not sure how far they can go in terms of creating GUIs and complex realtime logic) and point it at that source. You are then able to attach data in meaningful ways to, shall we say, &#8220;draw tools&#8221;, which you can then attach behaviours to (everything from what to draw to how to label it, colours mapped to integer values, etc). Something like aesthetically pleasing, non-interfering labels that intelligently place themselves is actually not too tricky to achieve programmatically, and once written could be added to a behaviour toolbox. You&#8217;d eventually build up enough tools to bring whatever you imagine to life.</p>
<p>I want to emphasize that I feel that the human element is very important, and that layout design should always be down to a&#8230; designer &#8211; just that extensive programmatic support would take so much of the tedium out of creating insightful infographics.</p>
<p>That sort of tool is out of scope for both of us, I&#8217;m guessing, &#8216;though it&#8217;d make a great project for someone at the MIT media lab with time to kill :). </p>
<p>I also have some ideas about just straight-up using processing, or at least javascript, to make &#8220;brochures&#8221;, if you will; essentially pictures like these  that use live data feeds. There are some examples of this around (in fact, it&#8217;s not an original idea at all; remember the flash digg-data-wheel-thing?) and I think there is very exciting potential here for all sorts of data analysis.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to do some intense investigation and dabbling in graphics-package-script and web tool draw functions over the next few weeks. I&#8217;ll let you know how I progress, if you&#8217;re interested.</p>
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		<title>By: drew</title>
		<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/comment-page-1/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jumponcontact.com/?p=339#comment-88</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it&#039;s pretty annoying, and a bunch of bugs/typos crept in because I was doing it all manually. I thought about trying to develop more effective workflows, but I figured I would do one graphic like this by hand first to learn what it was I would really want out of such a system. 

If I was going to do this all again (and I probably will, but for different kinds of data) I would look into Illustrator&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.adobe.com/devnet/illustrator/scripting/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;scripting system&lt;/a&gt;. I don&#039;t really know much about it, but it might help with this kind of thing.

The other option is to generate the components of the visualization using &lt;a href=&quot;http://processing.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Processing&lt;/a&gt;, export to a PDF, and then pull that into Illustrator. PDFs are functionally Illustrator files, so you retain full editing ability on them. So I could have generated all the circles and text directly from my spreadsheet  and then done the layout by hand. In the end, I think all the real layout/design work has to be done by hand. Trying to write something that automated the placement of the callout text and placed the bubbles relative to each other would be a nightmare. So I kinda like this strategy, where you just use another tool to generate the pieces of the viz and then assemble them by hand. The problem with that is updating stuff - if you do 90% of the layout then realize you need to make a global change, you&#039;re screwed and have to do much of the layout over again. 

Do you have any suggestions? I feel like this project fell into a weird middle ground where it wasn&#039;t computational enough to generate it all with Processing, but was still annoying to do by hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s pretty annoying, and a bunch of bugs/typos crept in because I was doing it all manually. I thought about trying to develop more effective workflows, but I figured I would do one graphic like this by hand first to learn what it was I would really want out of such a system. </p>
<p>If I was going to do this all again (and I probably will, but for different kinds of data) I would look into Illustrator&#8217;s <a href="http://www.adobe.com/devnet/illustrator/scripting/" rel="nofollow">scripting system</a>. I don&#8217;t really know much about it, but it might help with this kind of thing.</p>
<p>The other option is to generate the components of the visualization using <a href="http://processing.org/" rel="nofollow">Processing</a>, export to a PDF, and then pull that into Illustrator. PDFs are functionally Illustrator files, so you retain full editing ability on them. So I could have generated all the circles and text directly from my spreadsheet  and then done the layout by hand. In the end, I think all the real layout/design work has to be done by hand. Trying to write something that automated the placement of the callout text and placed the bubbles relative to each other would be a nightmare. So I kinda like this strategy, where you just use another tool to generate the pieces of the viz and then assemble them by hand. The problem with that is updating stuff &#8211; if you do 90% of the layout then realize you need to make a global change, you&#8217;re screwed and have to do much of the layout over again. </p>
<p>Do you have any suggestions? I feel like this project fell into a weird middle ground where it wasn&#8217;t computational enough to generate it all with Processing, but was still annoying to do by hand.</p>
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		<title>By: kremlin</title>
		<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/comment-page-1/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>kremlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jumponcontact.com/?p=339#comment-87</guid>
		<description>Sorry for the double post, but are you also annoyed by manually calculating tables of values and then painstakingly creating the graphics to go with them? Wouldn&#039;t it be great if there was a scriptable graphics package so you could go &quot;I want a bunch of circles as per this data source, radius maps to whatever, in this order&quot;? And then the layout could be data-driven and programmatic, too. Do you know if anything like that exists?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for the double post, but are you also annoyed by manually calculating tables of values and then painstakingly creating the graphics to go with them? Wouldn&#8217;t it be great if there was a scriptable graphics package so you could go &#8220;I want a bunch of circles as per this data source, radius maps to whatever, in this order&#8221;? And then the layout could be data-driven and programmatic, too. Do you know if anything like that exists?</p>
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		<title>By: kremlin</title>
		<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/comment-page-1/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>kremlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jumponcontact.com/?p=339#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Great diagram. Somewhat reminiscent of the informationisbeautiful.net infographics. I&#039;d love to a see a more complete, perhaps somewhat logarithmic one (so frigates and such can be included usefully).

Damn, now I want to play with inkscape.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great diagram. Somewhat reminiscent of the informationisbeautiful.net infographics. I&#8217;d love to a see a more complete, perhaps somewhat logarithmic one (so frigates and such can be included usefully).</p>
<p>Damn, now I want to play with inkscape.</p>
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		<title>By: Jump On Contact &#124; Printing The Ships of EVE</title>
		<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/comment-page-1/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>Jump On Contact &#124; Printing The Ships of EVE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jumponcontact.com/?p=339#comment-79</guid>
		<description>[...] put my visualization of EVE ship prices onto Imagekind, a graphics printing service. You can find it here. You can choose the size you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] put my visualization of EVE ship prices onto Imagekind, a graphics printing service. You can find it here. You can choose the size you [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jump On Contact &#124; The Price of Death</title>
		<link>http://jumponcontact.com/2010/02/the-ships-of-eve-online/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Jump On Contact &#124; The Price of Death</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jumponcontact.com/?p=339#comment-76</guid>
		<description>[...] there mostly as spoils for the winners of the battle. This loss hurts a lot &#8211; you can see in my visualization of ship prices, you&#8217;re losing much, much more than a few minutes of work. Even the smallest ships will take [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] there mostly as spoils for the winners of the battle. This loss hurts a lot &#8211; you can see in my visualization of ship prices, you&#8217;re losing much, much more than a few minutes of work. Even the smallest ships will take [...]</p>
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